搬运：美服官方对于限制塔本掉落的制作人回应

zhangyue616

美服近期刚刚更新了塔本限制掉落功能，不知道国服是否会实装，多久会实装，总之先看看官方怎么说：

机翻（附带个人润色）：

嗨，米莱西安们，

随着我们1月18日的更新，我们发布了对洛奇的变更，我们意识到许多米莱西安对此有着强烈的情感。特别是，我们想要讨论对塔本的变更，以及已经整合到这些任务中的每周清除奖励限制。与猫本或雪本从一开始就有每周清除cd不同，塔本现在已经更新，引入了类似的每周清除限制。随着这一变化，任务格式已经重新组织，将难度级别从四个调整为两个（普通/困难），改善了任务谜题的便捷性和直观性，调整了地牢奖励，并提高了地牢掉落率。

许多这些变化代表了对现有系统的改进，但社区对每周清除限制表示了相当大的不确定性。团队一直在阅读和消化您提出的许多想法和反馈。尽管在以前无限制的内容中添加限制可能起初不容易接受，但更改背后的原因已经被开发团队深入审查和考虑，我们将在下面与您分享他们的想法。

作为Mabinogi的出版商，我们将审查和审查游戏内容的许多方面，同时也将信任我们开发人员的最佳意图。我们作为一个紧密团队的目标是不仅为游戏的长期发展，还为社区的愉悦而努力。

来自我以及Nexon America和Nexon Korea团队的代表，我们将继续全心全意地投入到洛奇中，以提供我们都可以享受的服务。

诚挚地，

GM Mewlynne

洛奇制作人

开发者的评论：变更背后的原因

与地牢相关的更新的核心目的是增加地牢和奖励的价值。洛奇中的大多数地牢都有较低的奖励最理想物品的机会。这是有意设计的，以鼓励反复游玩。通常情况下，作为地牢奖励的物品也可以交易，因此必须考虑重复游玩来确定奖励的概率。我们的开发团队认为，这导致了地牢中反复出现负面体验。

在审查了我们的米莱西安的数据和游戏模式之后，我们决定有必要进行改进，以便您可以成长并获得装备。然而，有人担心仅仅增加奖励的概率会过多地增加材料的供应，降低物品的价值，最终导致失去了玩地牢的动力。这也是为什么一般洛奇地牢中所需的平均运行次数不能立即调整的原因，尽管对于那些尽力成长的米莉提亚来说，这可能感到有些困难。我们的开发团队深思熟虑了我们可以为洛奇的未来做出的最佳选择，并显著增加了奖励的概率，同时限制了清除次数，以便米莱西安在他们专注于的地牢中可以享受有意义的挑战，以更强大地成长。

在准备这次更新时，我们基于这些内容作为基本前提来考虑了适当的方向。

1.塔本每周清除限制

塔本是米莱西安在成长过程中可以达到的中级目标中获得最直接奖励的地牢。如果您看一下玩塔本任务的米莱西安的状态，他们通常会在困难难度上获得非困通行证。就猫本而言，您可以在没有获得进入通行证的情况下进入，以获取死神武器套装的材料，因此您在塔本需要单独获得非困通行证以获取毁破武器套装的材料，这看起来像是成长过程中的不自然部分。我们最终确定这是一个麻烦之一，并考虑了您可以在不获取通行证的情况下玩它们的方式。

然而，由于不再需要获取通行证并且奖励的掉落率已经提高，我们得出结论，获取的物品数量可能会过多地增加，而不受限制。由于维护物品价值也是游戏的重要组成部分，我们得出结论认为限制次数是必要的。

当观察北美米莱西安玩塔本任务的游玩模式时，开发团队发现，大多数玩非困任务的米莱西安每周清除次数不到10次，约80%的米莱西安每周清除次数不到5次。考虑到现在获得奖励的概率已经增加，我们认为大约清除15次的任务是一个合理的水平，可以在清除时提供更好的体验，而不会显著影响获得的奖励的价值。

我们还为那些希望更多次地清除任务的米莱西安准备了方法，通过使用通过活动和冒险家印记商店获得的额外通行证，可以每周清除超过15次（总共25次或更多）。我们也愿意在奖励的需求/供应稳定后逐渐放宽限制的可能性。

我们还在仔细倾听您对妨碍自由游玩的情况的担忧。我们将继续思考从长期角度来看哪些价值观最重要，并寻找提供愉快体验的解决方案。

2.引入Dungeon Re:fine系统的意图（国服译名未定，暂时不翻译）

许多米莱西安一直在询问Re:fine系统的详细信息和背后的意图。

Re:fine系统是一种系统，其中某个奖励出现的概率不受团队成员数量的影响而保持不变。在实践中，它的工作原理如下。

对于某些物品，无论是由一个人还是多个人清除，一次地牢运行中这些物品的数量和概率将保持不变。一旦物品的出现确定了，谁将在队伍中获得物品将由均等的概率决定。

换句话说，如果某个物品的概率为1%，并且一个人清除了地牢，那么该物品将以1%的概率出现。如果有4人组成的队伍清除了地牢，那么物品是否出现将由1%来决定，并且物品将以均等的概率分配给这4名成员中的1名。

Re:fine系统最初的目的是弥补多客户端使用所带来的补偿差距。尽管现在通过阻止多客户端的使用在一定程度上解决了这个问题，但我们仍然必须考虑到异常的游玩方式。特别是，地牢的期望奖励越高，使用多台计算机来清除它就越有利。我们的目标是防止鼓励这种游玩模式。通过更新，我们将Re:fine系统应用于某些地牢，同时增加了主要奖励的掉落率，以防止使用多个客户端或计算机具有优势，同时增加了玩地牢的奖励水平。

（译者：即副本内玩家数量不再影响珍贵物品掉落率，1人刷本和4人刷本的出货率一致）

最后：

上面所解释的开发目的主要集中在改变洛奇的长期增长。然而，我们认为，在洛奇中可以体验到的自由和多样的游玩方式也是重要的价值观。我们将努力通过收集意见的过程来发展洛奇，同时尽最大努力向所有米莱西安提供关于我们意图的充分解释。

谢谢，

洛奇开发团队

2楼贴原文

zhangyue616

原文传送门：https://mabinogi.nexon.net/news/88962

原文文本：
Hi Milletians,

With our January 18th update, we have released changes to Mabinogi that we recognize many Milletians have strong feelings about. In particular, we would like to address the changes to Tech Duinn missions and the weekly clear reward limits that have been integrated into these missions. As with Crom Bás or Glenn Bearna dungeons which had weekly clears from the start, Tech Duinn has now been updated to introduce similar weekly clear limits. Along with this change, the mission format has been reorganized, consolidating difficulty levels from four to two (Normal/Hard), improving the ease and intuitiveness of mission puzzles, adjusting dungeon rewards, and improving dungeon drop rates.

Many of these changes represent improvements on the existing system, but the community has expressed considerable uncertainty regarding the weekly clear limits. The team has been reading and digesting the many thoughts and feedback you have. While adding a limit to content that was previously unlimited understandably may not sit well initially, the reasons behind the change have been reviewed and considered deeply by the development team, whose thoughts we will share with you below.

As Mabinogi’s publisher, we will review and scrutinize the many facets of the game’s content, while also placing our trust in the best intentions of our developers. Our goal as a connected team aligns in our desire to do what is best not only for the longevity of the game, but for the enjoyment of our community.

From myself, and on behalf of my team at Nexon America and Nexon Korea, we will continue to put our whole hearts into Mabinogi to provide a service that we can all enjoy.

Sincerely,
GM Mewlynne
Mabinogi Producer

Developer’s Comments: Behind the Change
The core purpose of dungeon-related updates is to increase the value of dungeons and rewards. Most dungeons in Mabinogi have a lower chance of rewarding the most desirable items. This is by design, to encourage repeated playthroughs. The items given as dungeon rewards are typically also tradable, so the reward probability has to be determined by taking into account repeated play. Our development team believed that this was causing repeated negative experiences in dungeons.

After reviewing the data and play patterns of our Milletians, we decided that it was necessary to make improvements so that you could grow and acquire equipment. However, there were concerns that simply increasing the probability of receiving rewards would increase the supply of materials excessively, decreasing the value of items and ultimately leading to a loss of motivation to play dungeons at all. This is also the reason why the average number of runs required to obtain a desired reward set in general Mabinogi dungeons was not able to be adjusted immediately, even though it might have felt somewhat difficult for Milletians trying their hardest to grow. Our development team has thought deeply about the best choice we could make for Mabinogi’s future, and has significantly increased the probability of rewards while limiting the number of clears so that Milletians, in their quest to grow ever stronger, can enjoy a meaningful challenge in the dungeons they are focusing on.

In preparing for this update, we considered the appropriate direction based on these contents as basic premises.

Tech Duinn weekly clear limits
Tech Duinn is a dungeon with the most direct rewards that Milletians can achieve as intermediate goals in their growth process. If you look at the status of Milletians playing Tech Duinn missions, they are generally receiving “Elite” passes on Feth Fiada Hard difficulty. In the case of Crom Bás, it is possible to enter without obtaining an entry pass to farm the Nightbringer weapon set, so the fact that you needed to separately obtain an Elite pass to acquire the materials for the Perseus weapon set felt like an unnatural part of the growth process. We eventually determined that to be one of the hassles, and thought of the way where you could play them without acquiring passes.

However, as acquiring passes is no longer required and the drop rates for the rewards have been increased, we have concluded that the amount of acquired items could increase too excessively, without the limitation to the entry. As maintaining items’ value is also an important part of the game, we concluded that the entry limit is necessary.

When looking at the play patterns of North American Milletians playing Tech Duinn missions, the dev team found that most Milletians who were playing the Elite missions were clearing them fewer than 10 times per week, and around 80% of Milletians were clearing them fewer than 5 times a week. When considering the now-increased probabilities of receiving many of the rewards, we felt that clearing the mission about 15 times was a reasonable level, providing a better experience in clearing without significantly affecting the value of the rewards obtained.

We have also prepared the methods for Milletians who want to clear missions more by making it possible to clear more than 15 times a week (25 times or more in total) using additional entry passes received through events and Adventurer’s Seal Shop. We are also open to the possibility of gradually easing restrictions when the demand/supply of rewards has stabilized in the future.

We are also listening carefully to your concerns about situations that impede free play. We will continue to think about which values ​​are most important from a long-term perspective and find solutions that offer enjoyable experiences.

Intention of introducing the Dungeon Re:fine system
A lot of Milletians have been asking about the details of the Re:fine System and the intention behind it.

Re:fine system is the system where the probability of a certain reward’s appearance remains the same regardless of the party member’s number. In practice, it works as below.

For certain items, the number and the probability of these items appearing in one dungeon run will remain the same regardless of whether it was cleared by one person or multiple people. Once the item’s appearance is decided, who will get the item among the party will be decided by an even probability.

In other words, if the probability of an item is 1%, and an individual clears the dungeon, the item will appear by 1% for them. If the dungeon is cleared by a party of 4, whether the item will appear or not will be decided by 1%, and the item will be given to the 1 of the 4 members by even probability.

The initial purpose of the Re:fine system was to bridge the compensation gap, accounting for multi-client usage. Although this will now be addressed to some extent by blocking the use of multiple clients, we still have to take into account abnormal styles of play. In particular, the higher the expected reward of a dungeon, the more advantageous it is to clear it using multiple computers. We intended to prevent this type of play pattern from being encouraged. With the update, we applied the Re:fine system to certain dungeons while increasing the drop rates of major rewards, to prevent the situation of using multiple clients or computers being advantageous while increasing the level of rewards for playing dungeons.

The purpose of the development explained above is focused on changes for the long-term growth of Mabinogi. However, we believe that the freedom and variety of play styles that can be experienced in Mabinogi are also important values. We will strive to develop Mabinogi through a process of gathering opinions while doing our best to provide a sufficient explanation of our intentions to all Milletians.

Thank you,
Mabinogi Development Team

Ma103848

限制次数，提高掉率。
多开无用，一人足够。
现在不改，正在研究。
完事儿

abluesky

还是多开吧，至少可以多拿点金币

a3200260

其实还行。
能不多开大家都不想多开。
主要是群众里面有工贼啊，你不多开，人家多开，你就亏了。
限制次数，涨掉率好啊。
希望TC不要发扬传统手艺，限制次数的同时还降低掉率。

zhangyue616

Ma103848 发表于 2024.1.19 17:06
限制次数，提高掉率。
多开无用，一人足够。
现在不改，正在研究。

美服目前已经正式实装，国服就不知道了

是卜是傻

跟隔壁冒险岛1如出一辙

不愧是韩游

xxbidiao

想太多，掉率是个笑话。
（1）本来美服的说法就是“掉率与韩服同步”而不是“掉率上升”
（2）第一天先行队的主流结论是卷的掉率有上升，材料掉率依然一般（20周什么都没，20周一个misty red gem，等等）
（3）材料价格不降反升（这还是先行队考虑利益大量周回之后的结果）（美服半年前有一次bankroll掉率上升活动）

美服大佬的主流情绪是塔本完蛋了，直接跳Crom。

编辑： 这里附上美服20周Feth单刷（最高掉率）（不清楚国服叫什么， 僵尸DPS check的那个）Hard (改版后最高难度）掉落统计，供参考。这是一周15次上限+限定活动5次扩张的量。
出处： reddit 洛奇版 comments/19ae5mg/drops_from_20_feth_fiada_hard_runs_solo/
简单说来（编辑：看漏了）掉了1个新收尾材料(Functional Geata Fragment)。需求量是12个起跳。其他有价值的东西一切都没掉。
(Hard Reward Box是固定掉落，自选阿尔卡纳和特性材料）

liu2he4a

很好。其实多开是一个很降低游戏体验的事情，不论是更新导致补丁失效，还是电脑配置太低以至于带不动多个客户端。希望tc能不做任何本地化地跟进

三人禾

限制多开降低硬件压力可以理解，但是其他的就是泡菜脑袋想出来的，明明可以做到双赢的，比如新本和大本可以每周维护后封印，需要准备巨量普通材料解封印，收益能保底，概率丰收，而且本里机制搞起来，一个本全队要打几个小时甚至半天，这样才cool啊，普玩高玩官方双赢不好嘛。